Domestic Discipline, What Would Jesus Do?
Last week, after receiving a comment from Ed on Domestic Discipline and his belief that my marriage is mentally and physically abusive, I posted my response, titled Prejudice, here. This email from Ed followed:
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I checked a few days ago and saw that my post didn’t appear on your blog and it kind of bothered me, considering what I put into it. I know it’s your own publication and you have editorial control over it, but I still think it would be fair to post it so that it doesn’t appear that everyone who reads your blog has the same reaction to it. People need to hear different points of view, right?
Your observations about prejudice are insightful. It would make a good blog entry.
I feel the same way as you about most of what you said. I’m flabbergasted that you took my note as prejudicial. I guess it technically is, since prejudice literally means judging before [something]. But everyone makes judgments before doing/trying/buying/jumping/experiencing. That’s what we’re supposed to do. You certainly formed a judgment about the DD practice before you did it, or you wouldn’t have bothered doing it. I am going to form a judgment of that practice, too. This is the right thing to do.
Based on your response I think what you thought you were responding to was bigotry, not prejudice. It wasn’t. I wouldn’t have put nearly two hours into that letter if I didn’t sincerely care about you from the heart. I mean it. And I don’t mean it in a patronizing “look at what she’s gotten herself into” way, or “I’m sure glad I don’t hang out with anyone like that” way.
I feel like my letter was comparable to what you might say to a friend who you just discovered was bulimic. Hopefully you don’t think bulimia is just a lifestyle choice or I’ll have no hope of getting my point across. 
Now, if I had such a friend and had such a conversation with (say) her, should she just call me prejudiced and ignore what I had to say? Do I just not have a broad enough world view to see bulimia as an acceptable approach to weight loss? After all, she could argue, I’ve never tried it. I’m not being tolerant. I’m being bigoted. Of course not! There is no bigotry against bulimics, no fear of bulimics, only a clear understanding to people who don’t have it that there is a much better way. Likewise, there is no fear of or bigotry against practicers of “domestic discipline”, only a clear understanding to many people who have experience with a much better way.
I’m sure the bulimia analogy offended you, and I’m sorry. But I can’t think of a better way to communicate that when higher principles or universal truths are involved, disagreement usually isn’t based on prejudice, bigotry, fear, intolerance, etc. but on people’s understanding of universal truth. Is someone who sees bulimia as unhealthy fearful or intolerant? No, they just know the medical facts. But the bulimic sees it as a lifestyle choice, as legitimate as choosing a hair color or a favorite band.
That’s clearly how you see domestic discipline. But I see domestic discipline is an unhealthy way to meet a legitimate need. From what I read on your blog it is clear to me that you have a legitimate need that was previously unmet, and that domestic discipline is satisfying that need. To you, that’s the end of the story. Likewise, the bulimic has a legitimate need and bulimia satisfies it. End of story. But that’s only the end of the story if you look too narrowly and see the bulimic lose weight successfully or see you reduce contention in your marriage, accomplish things you otherwise wouldn’t, and feel the benefits of structure in your life. But with the bulimic an unbiased, caring outsider can take a broader look and see the poor health. Likewise, with domestic discipline an unbiased, caring outsider can take a broader look and see the pain that you hate and the misplaced accountability.
I’m not saying Grant is a bad guy or that he has you under his thumb, or that he is controlling all this. I’m saying that there is suffering occurring that is not right, on an absolute scale. By absolute I mean that God does not want His children to be doing or experiencing that suffering. And I’m not referring to anything sexual. That has nothing to do with this.
What this boils down to is that I see this as a question of broad truth, not of lifestyle. Medical science can say with absolute truth that bulimia is unhealthy and therefore medically wrong. If a bulimic can heed the medical science and conform their life to it, they will be healthier and happier all around, not just their waist line.
Likewise, God can dictate to us what is right and wrong, and He has spoken on the subject of how husbands and wives are to treat each other. We need to learn what He has spoken and conform our lives to it. If we do, we will be healthier and happier on a universal scale. I have experienced this.
As you can see, my position here depends ultimately on my knowledge of God. I think to carry this much further we would need to agree that God can provide universal truth, and how He does so. I would be happy to discuss that with you if you are interested.
If you’re not interested in going that way, I understand. But I really hope you can see that without bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, or fear it is possible for a reasonable, kind, educated adult to see domestic discipline as a universally inappropriate practice if (and maybe only if) God has spoken on the subject. And I believe He has, so that’s why I feel this way.
Sincerely,
Ed
I was contemplating whether to respond or ignore, when an Internet friend asked if she could email him back, as they share the same Faith (Mormon is LDS). I was so impressed that I asked permission to post her thoughts:
Dear Ed-
Sara of “Finding Sara” has become an acquaintance and friend of mine as over the last year I have commented on her blog and we have occasionally instant messaged one another. She and I do not share a particular religious faith, but we have plenty in common as we are both women in domestic discipline marriages. She related to me a few weeks ago in an instant message that she had received a comment on her blog from an LDS man and she wanted more information about my faith since I am LDS.
By the way, she did not delete your comment from her blog, but posted it as an entirely new entry along with the response that she emailed back to you. She did not take your comments lightly as you can tell by the time and effort which she put into her response to you about prejudice. I think she did a beautiful job of addressing the concerns you had about her marriage (and husband) being abusive.
And yet, yesterday morning she told me that you had emailed her again expressing more negative reaction to her choice to live in a dd marriage. I asked if she would forward your second set of comments to me and she said she didn’t mind. She would not, under normal circumstances, share a private email with me, but as you specifically intoned that God has spoken on the subject of dd, and since you and I apparently have, at least in name, a similar conception of our Heavenly Father, perhaps I would be more able to communicate with you to a point of understanding.
That is my only desire in taking the time to write this response to you. I am in no way expectant or even hopeful that anything I write to you will make you accepting of or kindly disposed toward dd, but perhaps you will be able to unload this burden you have picked up and started carrying around which makes you believe that you need to save Sara from herself, from her husband, and from sort of mental condition (like bulimia).
I do not set myself up as a model of LDS womanhood. I was born and raised in the church, went to Brigham Young University and married a wonderful returned missionary. We celebrated our 16th wedding anniversary yesterday. We have four children who are a joy and a blessing to us. We have never punished them physically except for a very rare “attention-grabbing” single swat when they were younger. We deal with our kids’ discipline problems these days with logical consequences….(i.e. “You two can’t get along? Then why don’t you unload the dishwasher together and see if that helps you get along better?)
We attend church weekly, read the scriptures together daily as a family, sit down to meals together, have regular family home evening, family prayer as well as personal prayers and husband/wife prayers. We pay a full tithe, attend temple regularly and my husband is currently in the bishopric. I am on the Enrichment board and teach Relief Society once a month. Our faith isn’t just a social obligation to us, but a deeply help belief in Jesus Christ’s Atonement and of his restored gospel here on the earth today.
My husband is a well respected, very competent in-house attorney/human resource director for the second largest employer here in our area. He is honest in his dealings with his fellow men and women. He grows a beautiful garden, keeps up our yard, maintains our vehicles and makes sure that we live within our means and carry no debt. I support and help him in all of these efforts. We go out on dates together weekly, hug and kiss constantly around the house and I still get butterflies in my tummy when I smell his cologne or see him wrestling in the yard with our boys. He is the first person I want to talk to when I hear or see something funny or something sad or something interesting. When I want to go out with girlfriends, he is the first one to make sure he’s available to watch kids. If I want to fly halfway across the country to visit a sister, he’s the one encouraging me by finding airline tickets. We are very happy.
Now to the heart of the matter as the preceding was only to let you know that I speak your language. My husband and I have a domestic discipline relationship which is something that I asked for and instigated. He did not initially understand my need or desire, but loving me as he does, he listened with his heart and dedicated himself to meeting my needs. You seem to equate this “need” that I expressed to my husband and that Sara has referred to in her blog to something pathological–although you feign compassion and understanding by use of the word “legitimate” to describe the need. You have decided that a “normal”, mentally stable, educated, God-fearing woman wouldn’t choose to place herself into the loving hands of her husband. But some of us do, Ed.
My husband does not claim that his right to discipline me (when he thinks it is necessary) comes from God. He knows that that right came from his wife– given as a gift in token of her faith and trust in him. Now, just because I have faith in my husband’s ability to actively lead and direct me and our children along on this mortal journey does not take anything away from my faith in a living prophets’ power to guide and direct the church or from my faith in Jesus Christ’s ability to redeem mankind from their lost and fallen state.
Sadly, there are men in the world who claim a right to abusetheir wives by virtue of their superior intelligence, or their larger physical stature or just because they are angry. Some “Christian” men even claim a biblically supported right to bring their wives into submission by force. But Sara’s loving Grant and my loving husband are not these kind of men. Satan loves to create counterfeits. For instance, he will suggest that sex outside of marriage is as fulfilling and holy as sex inside of a marriage covenant. I would call it a universal truth that sex outside of marriage is a gateway to all kinds of problems. In my rich and happy dd world, abuse is only a counterfeit for what I legitimately have and love.
Here are some of our LDS beliefs as outlined in the Proclamation on the Family: “By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners.”
My husband and I are equals before God and man, but our basic needs and natures are completely different. Remember “male and female created He them….” One of my own personal necessities (and it is related to my divinely created feminine nature) is to feel the loving protection and guidance of my husband, and sometimes this involves physical discipline. I covenanted when I married him to hearken to his counsel as he hearkens to God. One example of my husband’s protection specifically includes not allowingme to drift off into a sullen black hole where I can marinate on all the stresses and annoyances of life to the exclusion of joy and happiness. His providence includes keeping us connected on a level that is beyond polite and sometimes not-so-polite roommates. He doesn’t punish me because he doesn’t have a warm, fresh towel when he hops out of the shower. He doesn’t punish me because I spend too much at Wal mart. He doesn’t spank because he’s having a ba d day.
In dd, I always maintain my agency to choose, but just as my Heavenly Father will not spare me the natural consequences of violating eternal laws, my husband does not exempt me from the consequences of the household laws that I had a hand in creating. It’s powerful, Ed. It’s spiritual and it’s sexual and it’s a choice that doesn’t conflict with or diminish my faith in God. There are many “things” in life that you can agree involve enduring some pain as a means to attaining something really worth having. It’s another one of those universal truths you talk about. Earning our bread by the sweat of our brow and bringing forth our children in pain come to mind. On a more secular level, think of the hours of sweat and pain that resulted in all the medals won recently during the Olympics.
In your original comments on Saras’ blog you wrote, “If you like spanking for fun, whatever…” This to me suggests a lack of understanding and tolerance that there are “different strokes for different folks”. That you can so casually dismiss and minimize what to some of us is a powerful sacrament of marriage between a man and woman (something to which some people actually dedicate their blogs….ahem) is frankly sad.
That your sweet wife doesn’t crave the intimate experience of sitting on your lap in your strong embrace after you’ve “reconnected” with her in discipline way….having you dry her tears and rub her back as her tears change from tears of momentary discomfort (if they ever were about that to begin with) to cleansing tears filled with profound love and respect for this man who serves your home, your children, yourself with every part of his being is okay. If you have achieved the peace, romance and joy of marriage by a different route, I am happy for you. But for me and some like me, to have him tuck me up in bed like I am the most precious gift he has ever been given after taking time to reconnect with me…to have him make love to me knowing that it’s yet another part of himself that he reserves for only me….ahhhh. I am the most blessed of women.
And for myself, I love finding ways to make my husbands’ life more pleasant, from making and serving delicious meals and treats, keeping the house clean and organized, keeping up my physical body and appearance to please him. If I get a sense that there is something I can do to ease his burden or to make him smile, I’ll try to do it. It’s all connected, Ed.
You might be in my congregation, and you don’t even know it. We don’t go around announcing to people that we are dd. It’s none of their business for one thing and for another, we wouldn’t wish to endure the same misinformed judgments of abuse and mental illness that you’ve piled on Sara and Grant. Here’s another universal truth: sometimes a majority of mere mortals will say that a particular practice is good when it’s not. And sometimes, a majority of people would agree that something is bad when it is not. But “by their fruits, ye shall know them….” We are the couple who have been married quite a long time, but still scrunch up as close to each other in Sunday School class as we possibly can. We smile at each other regularly as if we are constantly sharing a lovely secret. Our children are well adjusted and happy because mom and dad are a united team that support and back each other up. As Sara said, we walk among you.
You and your wife probably have a similar relationship. And that some of us reach heaven by one route and other’s by a different path doesn’t mean that we won’t all sit down in heaven together someday. Some of us gals may be sitting on slightly sore tushes if we’ve been especially feisty that day, but you will recognize us by the big satisfied smiles on our faces and the way we cling adoringly to our dear husbands. Please, be well and happy, Ed. Bless you for caring, but don’t worry about us dd gals….at least not about Sara. She and one other dd friend that I have are some of the best, most nurturing, happy and peaceful women that I know.
Take Care,
A Happy LDS Wife and Mom
P.S. You may want to consider offering Grant an apology as he was rather irritated that some LDS man who doesn’t even know him would tell his wife that he is an abuser when he has dedicated himself to providing for his family’s needs and desires.
Happy LDS Wife and Mom, what else can I say but thank you! That was powerful and eloquent, and I truly appreciate you sharing your heart!
Other’s Choices
Swan made a comment on my Choices post that struck a chord with me:
I have been struggling with this notion of “choice” and decision making in the last couple of weeks. I know how we make decisions for and with one another, but I am sometimes befuddled by others, and I find it disturbing when I am witness to “relationships” that are founded on some sort of exploitive self-interest rather than a commitment to doing what is best for one’s partner and relationship.
Swan got me thinking. I realized I have been recently struggling with this same issue also. At times I am left with real frustration, seeing others make choices in their relationships which lead them to painful places, or keep them stagnant. People talk to me, and always have. Some of it is that I think I am a pretty good listener by nature, some of it is that I am a therapist and worked to hone my natural proclivity. Some of it is that I am open to discussing things in general. I want to talk to my really close friends about the things that matter, and they often talk to me.
When I hear things that seem ‘wrong’ to me, wrong as in just wrong, wrong as in unproductive, dangerous, antithetical to what they say they are trying to achieve in their life or their relationship, I have an awful time keeping my mouth shut. Sometimes I question if this is my ego, a flaw. What right do I have to judge someone else, what they choose to do? On the other hand, how can we not judge? If you are engaging with someone you care at all about in a friendship, and if they present facts to you that force you to draw conclusions, you are left to lie or tell. I do not need to share my opinions with people on the street, other bloggers, or casual acquaintances…only with the people I really do care about. Sometimes that is a dubious honor, I am sure.
On a simple level it is like a girlfriend asking how she looks before she leaves on a date. Do you tell her the dress is not flattering? There are other things to consider. Does she have time to change, have another outfit to put on, even truly want to hear the truth? Does she care about her impression enough that my dishonest answer would allow her to go out unaware that she did not look as she really wants to? As a friend, do I care enough to speak the truth, to help her get to where she says she wants to be rather than where she is?
Part of the issue is that I have learned with surprise and sadness that some people really do not want to know the truth. I am someone who really does want to know. I want to grow, to better myself, and I understand and accept that this will involve discomfort at times. One of the things that Domestic Discipline, at least DD the way we live it, has required is a great deal of introspection and personal growth. It has meant looking at myself and realizing just where I was unfulfilled in my life and my marriage, and accepting that I was, in fact, responsible for a lot of that. It has meant learning to put my ego aside and look carefully at what I am doing to get me and us where we want us to be, and to face up to the places where I fail us both. That process is not easy. Growth and change is simply not about staying comfortable and safe, right where you are. Forward movement takes change and is often not comfortable in the least.
Choices. I make them multiple times each and every day, and while I do a lot better than I did, I still make a wrong one at times. My temper snaps, I let a small or inconsequential thing irritate me, I ‘forget’ to do something Grant requested of me because I did not priorities him, us. None of these incidents are a big deal. I am not talking about ‘punishable’ offenses. We don’t sweat the small stuff between us. Grant does not make up ’silly’ little reasons to punish. Our dynamic is about respect and love, about enhancing what will strengthen the relationship. We work on the true quality of our marriage, our devotion, and how we carry that out on a daily basis. We look at what we are doing, and what we need to change. We take that seriously and commit to do what it takes, each of us and both of us together. This involves mindfulness. In general I have worked on becoming mindful, and that involves trying to see myself clearly. I struggle, as we all do with this difficult task, but it is so worth the effort. At least we believe it is.
My problem comes when people say they want one thing, but when it comes to their actions, the choices they make, it is clear they are making ones which lead them elsewhere. I do not have as much of a problem if someone just says I want X where you want Y, and they do what it takes to get there. We can agree to disagree, and I am respectful of their choice. Where I stall out is with the people who tell me “I want a DD marriage”, one based on respect, integrity and submission, and then they, for instance, lie to their husband on an ongoing basis, and they accept this from themselves. Or they are repeatedly and blatantly disrespectful, and go on their merry way. Or they say they want him to take control, but they repeatedly refuse to relinquish it. I guess what I am saying is at least attempt to be honestly accountable to yourself. I just have little patience for dishonesty, in others as well as in myself.
Perhaps that makes me judgemental. I struggle with that. What right do I have? But then I also do not believe that doing anything you feel like in this world is acceptable. We can and do hurt others and ourselves if we do not hold ourselves, and yes even others, accountable. I try to not criticize, but ultimately I feel having integrity means taking a stand. I do not need to go on another’s blog and leave a negative comment. Rather I will decide not to read there if their relationship and ideas bother me. With a friend, with a family member I care for, I need to say what I think, because I have a need for real relationships. For me, those require honesty.
So what is the point here? The more I grow, the harder I find it to be around people who don’t really want to. The better our marital relationship is, the less I am willing to spend time with people who are unhappy, and yet are also unwilling to change. I have found an increasing need to protect my attitude, my positive outlook, and my happiness. I want to surround myself with people who are growing, searching for more, on the same page…those who make solid choices. They really do not need to be the exact same choices that we make. After all, we do have ‘vanilla’ friends, and we do enjoy them. But they do have to be people who live a life consistent with their own values first, and who’s lifestyle values we can at least respect if not agree with. I guess, in the end, that is the choice we make.
Choices
As the summer comes to a close I am back from the Ranch. Of course, as usual, I hit the ground running. Work is super busy, and my kids have all those pre-school things to get through. This year that is huge, because our almost 22 yr old is moving into the city, into an apt with his girlfriend. Our living room is full of boxes and pieces of furniture and her Ebay purchases. Thursday will be moving day. We are making it a family affair, to show him our support, and to be with him to help. My heart is in my throat.
First, he is moving out. He is my first born, my oldest son, and also my wounded chick. He is bi-polar, just diagnosed this past year. He and we are learning, making adjustments, trying to figure out what that will mean in his life. I hope for the best and fear the worst.
After we get him settled on Thursday, we return home to get our daughter packed on Friday, so on Saturday we can drive the five hours to take her to college. I will truly miss her. It is all good. They are moving on in their lives, but for the first time we will have one child at home. Our youngest son just informed me that in December he turns 16 (well I knew that!) and that he can get his learner’s permit to drive. Somehow I thought they had changed the laws in our state and made it 17. Apparently not. 22, 20 and 16 will all happen in the next 3 months. Two out of the house and one driving…what happened? I must have blinked.
I am so glad Grant and I figured out that there were choices to make in our marriage several years ago, and that we could prioritize us, create the kind of marriage we now have, and still be good and loving parents. In fact in my opinion we are better parents now than we ever were. The stability, the love and connection, we have between us is something my children seem to draw strength and security from. How we organize ourselves in our marriage trickles down to how we organize our family, how we parent, and I believe we are all better for that. The more established authority structure, agreeing he is the HoH, has made living more peaceful and given us more time for lots of fun and loving. The whole family is more at peace.
At 19 our daughter started dating for the first time this summer. She is a late bloomer, rare and stunning. They dated for almost a month, made a decision to keep it exclusive and that they would be able to see each other when she returns to college, as he lives 2 hours from her school. It was all fine until he let her know that she would likely need to do more than 50% of the traveling as his car is leased and he wants to watch his mileage. She broke up with him within the week.
My daughter kindly explained to this young man that she likes him, but did not see the relationship being “quite right”. This was a nice guy who made a choice to not put too much effort into his relationship. That is not for her. I was so proud of her and her choices, and how she handled herself. We talked about the fact that if this young man is not willing to invest miles or effort now, what does that bode for his ideas of relationship investment in general. A really great relationship takes a lot of work, and you have to be willing, make the choices over and over on the small things. They add up.
A few days ago my son had a dip into depression. He had a very bad night, lots of anxiety and pain, and it took calling the psychiatrist and adding some medication. Bi-polar is complex and difficult. He apparently called his girlfriend and asked her to come be with him that night at our house. Out of the blue I got a call on my cell from her. She was in tears. She told me he had called and asked her to come. She had plans for the evening with a friend and was on her way out. She explained she “hates to cancel on people” to “let them down”. She felt between a rock and a hard place, knowing she had to bail on a friend or say no to my son. She told him she did not want to cancel on her friend, and he told her he was very hurt, that he would always be there for her if she needed him. She was very upset, and called me to talk out what to do. I have to wonder why she called me and not her Mom. I have no idea. I listened to her and sympathized with her dilemma, and then told her softly that Grant and I had made a decision quite some time ago that we would put each other first, before anyone else. We did that because that is the kind of relationship we wanted to have. I suggested that she needed to think about what kind of relationship she wants, and what she is willing to do. She decided to come, and I know they were both glad. I was proud of him for asking and proud of her for coming.
There are choices to make, and consequences that come out of those choices. There are people who have marriages that are not so very committed or close. Knowingly or unknowingly, they do make the choices that lead them there.
Prejudice
When I receive a negative or disrespectful comment, I most often delete it. I thought about deleting this one, but ultimately decided to respond. It was disturbing and filled with misunderstanding, but I believe did not intend to offend. Prejudice is often like that.
Ed comments:
Stumbled on this blog accidentally.
Wow, I’m glad to hear that you and your husband averted divorce some time back and renewed your commitment to each other, and that you’ve been following through on that. Very good to hear.
On the other hand, I’m worried for you. Your marriage is both mentally and physically abusive. If you like spanking for fun, whatever. But in your “Punishment” post you said that when it’s for punishment you dread it and try to avert it . This is your heart and your mind speaking to you. I urge you to listen.
You don’t have to tell your husband when you’re feeling vulnerable if you don’t want to. You don’t have to exercise or diet if you don’t want to. It’s ok to “let things slide” sometimes. Everyone needs that option.
I hope you two will decide that “Domestic Discipline” is simply a phase in your marriage that helped avert divorce, but that you can move to something based more on love and mutual respect.
You talk a lot about humility and submissiveness, and how “DD” helps you develop that. These are true principles, but they should be developed by being obedient to God’s commandments, not submitting ourselves to abuse.
In the first seven or eight years of my marriage, I didn’t treat my wife as well as I should. We would have a shouting fight every few months and little squabbles in between sometimes. Then there was a year where I really wanted to respect and love her more. I prayed every day that I would see her good qualities more, and see her inherent worth as a daughter of God. It took several months of this but through a few epiphanies and a small trickle of changes, it happened.
I do love her more now. I respect her ideas, her desires, and her accomplishments more. I treat her better. We squabble maybe once a month and yell maybe twice a year. We never have tension that lasts to the next day. As I started to change, so did she. I think as I took pressure off her and respected her more she didn’t have to defend herself as much, and she started treating me with more love, too (not that she was ever lacking).
She’s started exercising daily. I’ve never once asked her to exercise or indicated that her body was anything less than perfect. She does it because she chooses to. And if she chooses to skip a week I respect her sovereignty in choosing such things. If she needs to get out of a rut she may ask for help in mutually changing our routine to make it better for her to stay with her good habits.
Our marriage isn’t perfect; we’re still working on it. But I want you to know that I know from experience of myself and many other marriages around me that you can get to a place in your marriage where nothing is “hate it/love it” like you have now. It can all be “love it” when it’s based on respect and love.
Grant’s response is this:
The Best,
Grant
I have been thinking about prejudice in general this week. Last weekend we had a difficult disagreement with our 21 yr old son. His girlfriend’s closest friend is a young woman who has been in a lesbian relationship for several years. We have met the friend, but not her lover. It was shared with me some time ago that the lover decided a year or so ago that she wanted to undergo a sex change operation and began with hormone treatments and counseling to prepare for that change. At this point she is a woman with facial hair and a deep voice who dresses like a man. Her pictures show her looking like a transgender individual. My son and his girlfriend maintain a friendship with this couple and asked to invite them up to the Ranch for a weekend.
I consider myself to be fairly opened minded. I try. Grant is much more conservative than I am in general, and is comfortable within himself with his views. I have wrested with that difference between us in a multitude of ways over the years. I have mostly come to a place where I feel I love and respect the man enough to agree to disagree, and to know that underneath he is a lover of people, all people. Knowing the reality of that helps me forgive the intolerance that I sometimes believe I hear.
I told our son I would talk to his father and then let him know. On this issue, I not only knew it would be a definitive no from Grant (it was) but it was also, after wrestling with it, a no from me too. First, I wanted a last of the summer family weekend, to have us all together before we go our separate ways for many months. I would have asked that no one be invited on that particular weekend. However, the truth is, that also, I did not want this particular couple spending a whole weekend with us, and especially with our 15 yr old son. I do not know them, worry that a weekend of living with those in such a different lifestyle would cause stress for us. This summer has been stressful enough, frankly, and I am just not up for more…not right now. I told him that if he was having a party and invited them to our home we would be fine with it. If he wanted to invite them to dinner sometime, we would do that. He is welcome to bring them here for a weekend, after I go home with our youngest next week, and I believe they are going to do that.
Our son was furious with us, disappointed in us, incredulous that his parents could be so prejudiced and intolerant. It got to the point where I felt that our feelings were unimportant to him, and I told him so. I asked him why it was so essential to be tolerant of everyone’s feelings but ours? I think we both have our valid pints, our son and us.
Here’s the thing. People see what they see, and lack of knowledge and exposure makes for discomfort and at times even fear. Grant has an Aunt in her mid seventies who grew up in a small town. She is a wonderful and very outspoken little lady. I like and respect her. Grant loves her. A couple of summers ago we made dinner for her and some other family at the ranch. Our daughter and her cousin, both 17 at the time were talking about dating guys and Grant’s brother doing the Italian over-protective Dad thing “You don’t know what kind of guy he is…” to his daughter. Aunt D piped up “And don’t you girls go bring any Niggers home either!” The table was immediately silenced. The girls had eyes like saucers. I am assuming they had never heard anyone say the N word out loud like that! After an uncomfortable moment, my brother in law said “Aunt D, I don’t care what color she brings home, as long as he is a good man who treats her well. That is what counts!” Aunt D retorted, “Well whatever you say, but they best not bring any N…..into this family. They can be the nicest people in the world, but you don’t bring them home!”
Really, what is there to say? Our son dislikes her for her views. I guess I feel differently. She is a product of her times, her education, and her exposure. So am I, and so are you. We have our belief systems in bedded at a young age, and growing beyond those is a challenge. Maybe some things should not be grown beyond? Maybe some rules or boundaries in society are there for a reason? Grant believes that whole heartedly. I think that must be, but inner racial marriage, and sexual identity are not in that category, in my opinion.
I love and understand some people in my life who have what I consider to be prejudicial views. I try to be tolerant of them, as I ask them to try to learn to be tolerant of others. If they can’t they can’t, as long as they do not damage, as long as they are not mean, negative, or allow their views to hurt others, I guess they are entitled to their beliefs. I obviously have my own prejudices and lack of exposure to wrestle with. Where I get stuck is this. As a Jew who grew up in the shadows of world war II, and the atrocities of Hitler’s attempt to exterminate the Jews, I was taught the mantra “We can never forget.” Some people criticize the Jewish community for holding on to that perspective, however I do think there is a power in remembrance for us all. If we could all remember that under the right circumstances people can allow their prejudices and fears to turn into hate mongering and violence, I think that would be a good thing. Awareness protects us from ourselves, from unknowing doing damage to someone because they are different.
We all have prejudice. We just do. You don’t ‘like’ or feel comfortable around Jews, Mormons, Homosexuals, transsexuals, Puerto Ricans, men who spank their wives…The list is endless. I think what is imperative is to be willing…in your own time and in a way that is comfortable for you (message to my son)…to look beneath the labels to the person. People are people. I have always believed that. Are they decent, kind, loving, productive to society in some way? In my mind that does not mean you have to befriended them, or marry them, but you do need to be kind and respectful. You need to understand that you do live with them, and that all people deserve kindness and respect. Whether they are invited to break bread with you is a different matter. If you are adventurous, you could possibly get to know people who are very different from you, and even benefit from that experience. Personal growth is a choice though, isn’t it?
So to Ed, this is what I want to say: Firstly, I assure you that my marriage is full to the brim with love, respect and intimacy. I feel more valued and cherished now, as a spanked wife, than I did in the 25 years before, and some of those years were, in fact, very good ones. There were issues that tore us apart, but they never had to do with how my husband loved me, cared for me or respected me.
Domestic Discipline is most often something that women bring to their mates. We request this lifestyle because it fulfills a need deep within us. Is it unhealthy? I believe you are judging something that is simply foreign to you. I say if the marriage is strengthened and the individuals are happy and flourishing in all aspects of their lives, internally and externally, with friends, family and work, how could it possibly be considered “unhealthy”?
The “love it/hate it” feeling involved with punishment has to do with hating knowing that I have let myself and my husband down, and not lived up to our agreements. Yes, I ‘hate’ the pain of punishment, but it is much less than the pain of emotional ugliness between us, and it is something I told my husband I wanted and needed. I personally have never seen a marriage that is all “love it”. No one is perfect. No marriage is perfect. What we do, Grant and I, is openly discuss issues, decide together on expectations, and hold each other to them. I realize in today’s world that might seem a bit rigorous. This is a lifestyle we chose. We feel are both better people for it.
As for the diet/health issues, we decided some time ago that we do owe each other our health. We want to share our lives together as long as possible, and to grow old together as healthily as we can. That means diet and exercise and regular self care must be part of the equation. As archaic as it might sound to you that I am held accountable for rules regarding health, how backwards is it to sit by and watch the person we love most decline through the self abuse of alcohol, drugs, or over eating? Most of the world lives like that. We choose not to. I asked my husband to help me focus on getting myself to where I want to be with this, and he has agreed, as he feels it is as important as I do. I am sure of he smoked or had other unhealthy habits, I would be discussing those with him, although not punishing him as that is not how we agreed to structure our marriage. As it happens he is much more self disciplined than I am, and it is a non-issue for him. He relies on me for other things, and I try my best to be there for him, as he is for me. Really, that is all DD is, an agreed upon system of relationship organization that uses aspects of physical discipline with the consent of both partners.
You found your way to my blog, perhaps by following a link on marriage? It is interesting to me that several people have reported discovering DD for the first time through doing just that, finding my blog and tell me they are happy they did. It was what they always wanted but did not even know existed. If you follow the links on the side of my blog you will find many like minded folks. And they represent only a handful. We walk among you! I can only wish for you that you find a place in life as full of contentment and happiness, as we have.
Sara
A New Implement
I hate it when my ‘real’ life gets in the way of my cyber life!
I had intended to explain what this ‘mystery’ implement is and how we obtained it last night…so sorry! I loved all the really good guesses. Thanks for playing! This is one I never would have imagined myself.
Grant and I took a day trip a week ago through the mountains. We had come across a brochure that listed nearby towns and located the antique and crafts shops worth seeing. This is one of my favorite things to do, and Grant loves driving through beautiful scenery, meandering with no set destination, and making me happy. The day was perfect, sunny but not too hot. The mountains and lakes were gorgeous, the views breathtaking, the towns quaint, and the shops full. We had a really wonderful day!
One of the shops turned out to be down a country road on the outskirts of a small town and in the antique dealer’s home. The sign outside said, “Antiques. Toot your horn!” We did, and the wife came out and showed us into their barn while her husband finished his lunch. Later he came out and took us into a second outbuilding where the item pictured was found on a shelf in a back room. I saw it first, showed it to Grant, and he grabbed it! “No, no…I was just showing you!” I whispered. “Come on over here. Hey look at this!” I attempted to distract him. He put the item back on the shelf and we looked at other things and left that room for another…all good. Until, as we were deciding he would make another small purchase, he suddenly said “Wait a minute” to me and the shop keep, and ducked back into that room, and emerged with paddle in hand. Ugh. “Honey, why would you want that?” I said, while the man watched us. Then turned my head and whispered to Grant, “and we don’t need anymore wood!” He of course ignored me and brought both his finds to the dealer and said “What do you suppose this was used for?” Now the thing was tagged “paddle” I might add, but clearly it had some use as a tool. He said “Weeell, aside from the obvious use, it is a chambermaid’s sheet straightener. It comes from Europe. They used the flat edge to push the wrinkles out of the sheets on the bed, tuck them under tight, make the folds…all of that.” Grant nodded and I walked out.
So I have indeed have my sheets straightened several times this week, and when I got a bit feisty Grant enjoyed asking, eyebrow raised,
“Do I need to straighten your sheets, woman?” Hmph!
Can You Name This Implement?
What is it?
Want to Play “Name This Implement” ?
A week ago Grant and I went on a wonderful day trip. I will tell you all about it, but in our travels through multiple antique stores, we found this treasure. Grant not only insisted on buying it, despite my assurances that we did NOT need another wood implement, but also needed to talk to the shop owner about it’s original use! Talk about embarrassing! I simply had to leave the store!
The paddle is maple, clearly hand made, easily over 100 yrs old, and about 22 inches long from end to end, the handle 4 inches long. It is a bit over 3 inches wide and has tapered edges on both long sides. The wood is worn smooth and of course one has to wonder how it got that way! The antique dealer said it had a very particular purpose, “outside of the obvious possible use”. THAT was when I left!
Any ideas?
____________________________________________________________________________________
OK, so here are a few hints as no one has guessed it so far…
It is used in the house but not the kitchen.
It is obscure. A vintage household tool. I had never heard of such a thing, but Grant tells me he has seen it in an old movie.
Guesses? I will share the story tonight.
Reassurance
Why do we have this need? I think when I am less sure of myself, or my world, when I feel insecure, I need to know that even if I am not in control, someone is. That would be Grant, as we agreed he would take on that responsibility to keep me safe and sane. On the surface it is sometimes restrictive to have to have my husband set the boundaries, but underneath, it is tremendously freeing to be able to relax and to know I will be held, safe within them.
I guess an analogy would be swimming. I am a good swimmer. I am quite capable of swimming on my own as I think every person should be. However, when I am with Grant, I am free to float. He keeps an eye on me, and a hand guiding me. I can close my eyes and give myself over to experience and the pleasure of just letting go. Floating with my eyes closed does require going wherever he chooses to take us. I have agreed to be along for the ride. It does not mean I cannot swim should I need or want to. It means when I am with him I choose not to. The whole experience requires giving up control, and complete trust. There are payoffs and a price paid, as well. Such is life.
So what does this have to do with testing boundaries? I think when the stuff of life interferes with my relaxed and trusting state, one which many of us refer to as ‘submission‘, we feel a need to test to see if we are still safe. I have done that, and have seen other DD friends do it too. I suspect it is a natural part of a self defense strategy that we aim to protect ourselves with. It can also be hurtful to the relationship, as suddenly we are struggling in the arms that have held us safe, and questioning the authority we accepted the day before.
When my father died a few weeks ago, we came home as a family to bury him. Obviously it was a difficult and painful time. At the end of those 4 days, Grant prepared to leave to go back to work at the Ranch and I had to stay on for the next four days to go to my work. We have had this schedule all summer where we are apart for 4 days every other week, and it was all fine. Except that suddenly it wasn’t. I recognized the day before that I was feeling antsy, wanting to push at him a bit, suddenly and seemingly out of nowhere feeling the urge to brat. I resisted. I also decided to tell Grant I was feeling antsy and bratty and told him that I get that he knows I am hurting and feels bad for me, but please…don’t let ‘us’ be too effected. If my external world is shaky and then our relationship feel like it is shifting too, that gets to be really too much to handle. I count on him to keep the walls solid, regardless of what I am doing or feeling.
With Grant forewarned I went on my merry way, doing the best I could to hold myself together. All in all I did well. The next day as he was packing to leave, he went into the bedroom and I followed. He intended to grab a few things to put in the car, and when saw the implement bag and grabbed that as well. He realized he had left a strap inadvertently sitting out from our maintenance session the night before. He asked me to hand it to him as he turned his back to me and bent slightly over the bag on the bed, trying to see the numbers on the padlock. Can anyone guess where this is going? Now standing behind him, I picked up the strap off the chair, and suddenly had this vision and a flash of a strong impulse to whap him with it!
I know we all have our different rules and boundaries, things that we do for play that some think are OK and others do not. For me this would have been ‘sudden death’. Seriously. Grant does NOT in any way shape or form feel OK about that kind of joking around. Fortunately sanity returned and I resisted the impulse, but I did not turn it over. He reached out his hand and asked for it a second time and when there was only silence, turned and looked at me. I shook my head no, and put the strap behind my back. He met my gaze, and his hand extended, asking a final time “Give me the strap”. I took a step backwards and again shook my head no, saying nothing. I truly had not thought this through. It was a spur of the moment decision. An impulse to push those boundaries, clearly.
Without missing a beat Grant calmly turned back to the bag, unzipped it, and took out the ebony hairbrush. As he sat on the chair and pulled me over his lap he said, “So that is how it is?” and he started spanking. After 10 or 15 hard smacks he asked, “Have you had enough? Are you ready to stop pushing?” You know there are these moments. You know what you should say, what you want to say, and then there is the ever present possibility of telling the truth. I had to say it. I answered, “I am not sure.” He resumed spanking hard, so that even over my jeans I was ready to cry “Uncle” in no time! “Are you sure?” he asked, “Because I can keep going!” “Nope, I am all good! I promise!” He let me up and as he put his arms around me I found myself suddenly welling up with tears. “I am sorry I pushed at you like that.” I whispered. He hugged me to him and said “That’s alright. You can push whenever you need to, and I will spank whenever I need to!”
I guess maybe I am pretty darn weird, but I have rarely felt so understood, so safe and loved, as in those simple few moments of reassurance.
