Questions on Punishment
Hi,
I have another question for you. I know this sounds silly but I really do not know anyone who has this kind of relationship and I don’t know who else to ask. I feel like we really don’t know what we are doing sometimes. How many spankings would you think a punishment spanking would be? We started out with 30 with his hand and 15 with the paddle. From what I’ve read, this just doesn’t seem like it is much. Do we add more implements? Do we add more swats as time goes on? It seems like the paddle is the worst thing to use Maybe we shouldn’t have started with that. What about maintenance? Do you know what the general amount would be? I know that this whole thing should be up to each couple but since I have no idea what a normal amount would be, I would like some help with this.
Thank You, Lana
Lana,
Couples handle the specifics of spankings and particularly punishments very differently. Of course you don’t know what you are doing because it is all new, and because you read all sorts of things and don’t know what will suit you best. You likely don’t have a lot of implements yet, nor a lot of experience with them. You also don’t know what your pain threshold is compared to the next gal. And that will change over time, as you both get more experience. I have friends who ( we have closely compared notes :) ) we figured out not only can handle but also need a lot more than I do. I also have friends who need less. I need more or less at different times too!
What does that mean…”I need?” Well I need a punishment spanking exactly never. But, if he is going to deliver, it might as well do something…get me through my snit, communicate his displeasure with the offence, get my attention. There are times when I feel guilty already, and am very open to the spanking, submissive in spirit going in. It doesn’t take a lot of spanking to bring me to tears or get past the incident. There are times when I am angry and defiant, and go in telling myself (in my head) that he is flat out wrong, or it is all his fault anyway, and I am NOT going to give in, cry, submit in my heart. The spanking ends up a lot longer and harder. Do I tell him these things in advance? Not unless I am already past the point of reason. It’s happened, but not often. One time I went OTK after looking him in straight in the eye and saying with poised dignity “I just want you to know that whatever you make me say, I won’t really mean it!” And he had the gall to LAUGH at me!
Anyway, I have read all sorts of things too, such as using a timer, different implements for different offences, different number of swats predetermined…all fine if it works for you, but we do none of that. First, those things seem rather complicated and we don’t have the inclination to pre-negotiate what we do. Second, Grant is mostly intuitive, I think, He’ll have to tell you more about that. As an example, swearing is not allowed. But there is a big difference between exclaiming “Sh*t!” when I have dropped a brick on my toe and “I don’t give a sh*t!” in an argument with him. You can’t get all that into the rule book!
What we did at the beginning was talk. We still do that, but less is needed regarding these things. We got the advice to never use a new implement for a punishment, and I think that is a great idea. You need to have a sense of how it feels, and he has to have an idea how it handles and how it makes you feel. Punishment is serious and emotionally loaded, so try to minimize the guess work.
People use different positions and rituals. We tried variations but came back to a certain chair in our bedroom in an OTK position. We also did not use wood for the first year or so. Our first and only implement was a leather paddle from Leatherthorne Paddles. Now it is barely a warm up implement, but in the very beginning it sure felt serious to me! Some use corner time before or after. We don’t. Grant always felt a warm up was not appropriate for a punishment and I always disagreed. We talked about it, and I kept revisiting the issue, but unfortunately he was never convinced. A warm up makes a HUGE difference in the spanking experience! Most of this was developed as we tried things. Grant called the shots, but I always told him how this or that made me feel, both physically and emotionally Having that information is essential for a dominant to make an informed decision, and he always encouraged it.
As for Maintenance, I will refer you here: http://findingsara.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/maintaining-dd/
Ours has varied, but we go around an hour give or take, and most of what we learned about spanking, about ourselves and each other, what works and doesn’t came out of those maintenance spankings sessions. We do twice a week but many others do once. Do whatever you feel you need and can commit to. The regularity of those spankings has helped us learn, helped keep us on the same page, helped to reaffirm our roles, and also been a regular tension diffuser and reconnect time. We both noticed that once we began them regularly, the incidence of punishment spankings decreased significantly.
As always I would advise you to read and gather ideas, try things, and then settle on what feels like it works for you and your husband. Know it will change as you do. Be willing to let things develop over time, to allow trial and error and hopefully enjoy the journey!
Sara
His thoughts:
Punishment spankings are meant to hurt, unfortunately. I do not like to hurt Sara, however, quick and powerful smacks with a paddle, until she cries, or I sense it is enough, suffices. There is no general rule or guidelines that fit every couple. I believe the key to successful punishment spanking is that the man be sensitive enough to know when to stop. If the woman is laughing, cursing, complaining, or otherwise not getting the message, the spanking should be harder and longer. To know and read your woman is the most important part, and of course if this is not a consensual arrangement agreed to in advance, do not punish.
I have found that to punish properly it is important to get an implement that your lady would never want to see again. Over time I learned I cannot be shy, or hesitant, and I cannot be weak. It is not easy to punish, so I am careful and thoughtful about WHY I punish.
Maintenance spanking is altogether another thing. Maintenance should be done regularly, with consistency, and of course it will vary in intensity and timing for different couples.
For Sara and I, I make sure we do Maintenance every four days at least. How does one know what time interval to use? It is different for each person. I sense when Sara is getting tense, edgy and/or snippy and then I know it is time for a Maintenance Spanking. Also, I work to keep the every four day routine no matter what–unless schedules, kids or other unexpected things happen. I firmly believe that CONSISTANCY IN MAINTENANCE IS THE MOST VITAL FACTOR IN KEEPING PEACE IN THE DD HOME. I have found that maintenance spanking allows the relationship dynamics to remain cohesive, and works to build a woman’s trust in her man and thus a feeling of security in the woman.
Maintenance spanking is something both should look forward to and enjoy. It can lead to deeper intimacy and more passion. Again, it has to be fundamentally consensual.
The following is some of what we do (I speak for myself and Sara)
1. I start slow to make sure she has a good warm-up and she feels safe.
2. I build the intensity slowly, take my time–talk to her–ask how she is feeling, allow her to express herself.
3. It is better for her to have many spanks over a long period of time in her M.S. This can actually allow her to drift, even meditate and let go of her stress. I allow for time–at least 45 minutes to an hour from beginning to end, but that will vary with different couples.
I know that I want to take time for Sara, to do my best to build up the intensity slowly, to make it easier for her to take, and allow her to understand that I am willing to take time for her, for us, and ultimately for the benefit of our family.
4. It has worked best when we have multiple implements–some that do not hurt as much in the beginning, and then I progress through them from easiest to hardest.
5. She will express many feelings, thoughts, concerns to me when I am doing it right–right for her–and we have had so many deep conversations after many of our M.S. sessions. I have been delighted at what this routine has done for us.
Grant
A Question On Committing to Discipline
Hi Sara,
I have been married for 25 years and have just discovered this type of lifestyle. My husband had never even pretended to spank me up until about 1 month ago. He mentioned that he would like to spank me and since I am always interested in spicing things up, I thought I would give it a try. I realized that having him being dominant was something that i really liked. I have always been outspoken and have gotten my way in most things. He is a very nice person and would rather keep the peace than have any confrontations with me. Because of this dynamic, we have always gotten along well and rarely have conflict amongst ourselves. As I was looking into this DD lifestyle, I thought it would be something that I would like to try to make our marriage more interesting. I talked my husband into trying it and he loves it.
Unfortunately, I am having second thoughts. I got my first discipline spanking this week and I did not like it all. He used the paddle and it hurt. I broke 3 of our rules and ended up getting spanked 3 days in a row. By the third day, I didn’t want to do it anymore. I tried to talk him out of doing it and he feels we need to continue. I was shocked that he was so into it. He was also mad that I changed my mind and didn’t want to follow through with being punished. I do have a couple of bad habits…charging unnecessary items and eating junk food. I also don’t always volunteer information about misbehavior. He spanked me with his hand first and gave me 15 swats with the paddle but it hurt so bad and I started to cry.
My question is: Is it normal to have second thoughts about this? How long should we try it before we reevaluate? After reading your blog, I found that I could really relate to you and your husband. I have always been a leader in the work place and amongst my peers. My husband is a great person and has rarely even raised his voice towards me. We have 4 children and have a great family life. I have to continue DD for at least 2 more months. My husband loves it and finally feels that he has a say in how things go. He loves that I have rules and that he can enforce them. I am afraid; I will never be able to get out of this if I decide I don’t want to do it anymore.
Lana
Dear Lana,
First of all, one must make a commitment to a healthy lifestyle and keep the commitment under duress. It is that kind of thinking that breeds success in any endeavor as you know.
1. Yes, it is normal to have second thoughts. It is common no matter what endeavor. Quitting is not an option for me and Sara because we have grown in our relationship and no matter how difficult it gets at times, we know that it will work out and we will be better together.
2. I do not think that re-evaluation should be premised with quitting. First of all, it is best to develop this new dynamic to bring about the change in your relationship. Re-evaluation should always be about what the two of you can do to make it work for your relationship. Since your husband has taken to this dynamic and power exchange, it is in both your interests to commit yourselves to exploring the possibilities you have within the DD lifestyle. I believe that the equal but different natures of Masculine/Feminine essence will allow both of you to grow to your fullest potential if you accept the innate nature of your partner.
3. You are not the only one with rules. Men in the DD lifestyle also have to follow rules–their own rules and requirements. They have to commit to being a leader with all its responsibilities. Your husband is not the boss, he is the leader. That means he has to adhere to a policy. In a nutshell, he has to maintain his respect for you, he has to protect you. His concern about your health is part of that responsibility (and yours, of course) and he must keep himself healthy too. He cannot be hypocritical and will not be if he is a good leader.
Also, once he has assumed the mantle of leadership and responsibility, your health, your life, the lives of your children, their safety and nurture are his responsibilities. That does not mean you are not responsible, but it means he can allow you to relax and grow in your Femininity and not hold on to the stress of those responsibilities. In the end, all is his fault. I accept my leadership role with gravity and he will too. Let him allow you to relax and let go…it does not make you less of a person.
4. Do not be afraid that you can never get out of this lifestyle. Be afraid that you lose the benefits and the great developments that your relationship can have by not staying committed. It is easier to break a commitment then to keep it. You have to weigh the benefits against the deficits in this lifestyle. I suggest you sit down with your husband and make a list of positives and negatives of this lifestyle and you will have a better idea of what to do.
I can only speak from my own experience but if you decide to do this, make the commitment that your made when you got married–forever, through sickness and in health, good times and bad. It really is that simple.
The Best,
Grant
Lana,
My take on your question is as follows. I had no clue what I was getting into when we started Domestic Discipline in our marriage. I thought it was to support an agreed upon power exchange and to correct anything that came up that detracted from the general welfare of our relationship. It was and it is. But, I learned in time that it is so much more.
DD is not really about being punished (spanked) for doing X or Y anymore. In fact, if after the first year that is happening very often I would have to question why that might be. I mean, you know his expectations, the rules. I assume (at least in abstract) you agree with them? You also think that you should not charge more on the credit cards than you can afford? So what’s the problem? The problem then becomes “Why am I not doing the things I agreed to?” “Why am I not keeping my commitment to exercise, my promise to remember to lock the door, working harder to keep my temper?” None of us are perfect and we are going to mess up, but the more self aware we become and the more effort we put in, the more success we should experience….and the less conflict with our spouse.
I have come to a place where it is very evident that pleasing my husband makes him, and us together, and thus me, happier. He also really tries to please me when he can. He’s a good guy that way. So why would I do things that displease him, or that detract from our general well being as a couple? I am either unfocussed, don’t care, or just not holding myself to any kind of standards. None of those things are acceptable in my eyes. DD has made me and us think hard about our values, where we live up to them and where we fall short. Then we feel compelled to be very honest with each other and ourselves about the realities. Once you start to think that way, I just don’t know how there is any going back! Where to? To disregarding what he wants, rules you agreed to? How would living like that affect the marriage? This is about way more than spanking!
Now, unlike Grant, I am not sure after a month you will be willing to commit to forever with DD. Being the spanked party is way different than being the spanker! (Not that I have ever been a spanker, but I have a clue! ) The feelings of vulnerability and lack of control are difficult and at times truly frightening. Being spanked for punishment is no kind of fun. Of course you did not like it! It hurts and is embarrassing. However, did it accomplish anything in terms of your views on your rules and/or living up to your agreements? Do you feel it enhanced your feelings of respect for your husband? Did it resolve conflict between you and create peace when all was said and done? I have always felt that the pain and tears of a spanking are nothing compared to the pain and tears of anger and turmoil. Personally, I’d take the spanking any day…well any day he insisted. I am still never volunteering for a punishment!
This is all a process, and as you and your husband go step by step together, you will learn yourself and what support you need from him, and what works between you. With mutual respect and love, you can make this work!
Sara
On Apples and Oranges
After some serious reflection and a weeks distance and a bunch of sorting we are indeed back to normal. That means we agree on many things, not all, and e mostly harmonious. Last week was not an easy one, but I learned a few things.
Grant did something that I disapproved of and that he would typically disapprove of. I understand we lose our tempers, but this was not about temper. The more I questioned and the more he calmly asserted that although he was acting out of character he was comfortable with it, the more upset I got. I was not comfortable!
We have certain rules in our marriage that reflect the way we choose to live, how we wish to treat each other, how we handle problems, and even how we will and will not fight. To my eyes, he broke one of those, and it left me rattled, to say the least. His perspective is just different. Back to apples and oranges. But at least we know there is fruit involved and have agreed to disagree on a few smaller pieces, while we mostly understand the other’s view. That took some getting to.
In retrospect, I know that his behavior reminded me of the way he sometimes acted many years ago when our marriage was at a very bad point. It triggered some painful memories and I got frightened. I was not consciously aware of this at the time, but the more upset and disconnected we became, the more disconcerted I felt underneath. The anger was layered on top of that.
I also did not at the time know he had started preparing for an acting role, immersing himself in this part, or who that character was. We had not yet been introduced! I know what that is like, when he is working on a role. He subtlety changes and different aspects of his personality come forward. Without that information, it all made no sense at all. He just was not ‘himself’.
It seems it is easier for me to express anger than fear, and in fact when I am most likely to lash out is when I feel afraid . I usually pull myself together and attempt to show no outward signs. Except anger. Anger at feeling off balance and out of control, and anger that he somehow put me there. I am not sure that is entirely rational but it is how I reacted.
Grant is correct that this triggered a replay of old relationship dynamics. I withdrew and became quietly hostile, but ready to erupt at any provocation. I felt I was the injured party and that he would not or could not understand. The more he tried to push through my defenses, or even act friendly, the more closed and angry I became. Underneath I was sad and frightened, mostly I think because I could not figure out what was between us, and to have things deteriorate so quickly was just very upsetting. I needed to pull away from him, felt I had to protect myself, and was furious at him all at the same time! Now, the perception that he is attacking, angry, that I need to pull back and protect myself is not the same as the reality at all. But in the midst of those feelings, I am not sure how one tells the difference. After all was said and done, I am very sure it was way overblown. In the midst, I was sure my vision was clear. How awful is that?
Frankly, without the emotional balance and connection between us the DD dynamic, and any sort of spanking felt useless. That was different and very upsetting too, to not be able to find any compromise or common ground. I did indeed lash out at him very inappropriately at several points and cursed as well. He took no time in communicating how he felt about that, me OTK with the paddle I hate most. Here’s the thing. It fixed nothing. Instead of sad and angry, I was sore, sad and angry. He was justified, and I have no argument, but that spanking was for a behavior on the surface that neither of us had a handle on the source of. That fixes nothing, when the understanding is missing. I will admit though, had he not responded that way, it probably would have sent me right over the edge into a complete free fall of insecurity! At least THAT was intact!
Later that evening he insisted on doing our maintenance spanking as scheduled. By that time I was simply in lock down mode. I complied in body, but Sara had left the building! I have never had this experience before, to such extreme, but I have talked to friends in DD relationships who have. I was angry and determined to not be available on any level. I had nothing so say, nothing to give, and I refused to respond. I know that sounds just awful but truly I was so deep in defense mode it was all I could manage. Like rabbits freeze in self defense, I froze. My husband was acting and speaking completely differently than I could make sense of, and I felt completely off balance. Right in the middle of the spanking he gave up and stopped. He said we were done. I felt like I was left hanging, although I think there was nothing else he could have done.
Days later, when things were better between us I asked him why he stopped. I cannot remember him ever doing that before. He said that he felt that to continue would be “abuse”. I was clearly unable to participate, to be present, and he was not going to force that on me. He stayed and waited for me to be ready to come to him. Now THAT is very like Grant!
His handling of that made me more aware of how vital my consent is, and how my active or passive participation in TTWD is so crucial. Most of why none of the tools we have worked is because I was unable to allow them to. I pulled back and shut down. Now I understand that some of what started this was Grant being stressed and worried and on edge, and some was for sure the hormonal magnifying glass that multiplies my emotions 10 x, at times with no warning. Part of it was an unexpected throwback to a dysfunctional relationship that Grant and I lived through together that will always be there in our shared past. I thought it was long behind us, but regression can and does happen at times to everyone.
In the long run it WAS his steadiness and my self exploration that got us through. We redid the maintenance spanking the next night, agreeing to not discuss, but just to do it. We just laid everything side and went on faith and trust. Sometimes spank first and talk later works best for us. I was calmed and much more open and that reconnect allowed me to come to terms with some of the things that had frightened me and to finally share them with Grant when we went out to dinner the following night. He gets it, and has promised never to do THAT again. We both understand that it triggered things for me that went way beyond the realities of our current lives. And that is just what PTSD* is. So we learn and we move on, committed to do the very best we can, together.
* Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
A Question on Bumps in the Road
Dear Sara and Grant,
I hope you don’t think this inappropriate but now I am confused.
Sara, you said “Grant and I have had an awful few days. . . . . Sunday morning we were great. By Sunday afternoon we were arguing, by Monday we were disconnected, and by Tuesday the walls were built, all circuits down and there seemed no way to bridge the distances. . . . . There was yelling and unkind things said both ways, two spankings and tears. Still, we are not resolved.”
Grant, you said “. . . I am a rock which no ocean of tantrums, winds of withholding or blasts of bitterness can shatter . . . . “
I thought the purpose of a DD relationship was to stop disagreements from going on for any length of time. In previous entries over the years, Sara, you have said there is discussion and if something is still unresolved then he decides, you cooperate and everyone moves on. Yet this seems to be going on for quite a while (3 days at least). So my question is how does this disagreement compare to similar disagreements you must have had prior to DD?
My husband and I are not in a DD marriage but I often pick up neat stuff from your blog that sometimes helps in improving our relationship & communication. I hope you don’t think me rude for asking but it has been on my mind (You might say it is driving me “bananas”! ;-> ). Anyway, I hope by now you have worked out the issues and your troubles are “behind” you ;->
R.
Dear A Lurker,
This agreement differs from other disagreements we have had due to a confluence of events that were unlooked for.
1. I am working on a film role as an old fashioned Italian male who has a temper and sometimes casually, without anger, will demonstrate his territorial control by removing items from his domain, breaking things, etc.
2. The issue at hand was an ongoing dispute with our children’s behavior.
2. Sara was having hormonal issues due to female change of life problems.
3. I was going in for colonoscopy that I loathed to do.
4. Sara and I were apart for days due my business travel.
Now, with all that said, there is still no excuse for our 3 day tempest. The fact that Sara could not let go of the issue was part of the trouble. Normally, we agree and see eye to eye on an issue with little problem. But sometimes, being human, we get into old patterns that are destructive of the relationship, and that we do not see happening while in the whirlwind.
Truthfully, and I am in no way degrading Sara, she just could not let go of the fact that I behaved inappropriately unless I admitted what I did was wrong. I did what I did to prove a point, to make a statement and to get the family’s attention focused upon a problem that all were ignoring (in my view). It was a quality of life issues at stake for me, but the family did not seem to respect my wishes.
So, put all that together and it lead to a 3 day dispute. However, to get to the heart of your question on how this could go on so long, I will tell you that no relationship is going to run without bumps in the road and no relationship can go along without constant maintenance and repair.
It can be compared to an old favorite, or classic vehicle: It looks great, it runs great most of the time, but it needs oil changes, tune-ups, maybe a preventive procedure here and there. However, no matter how well you keep your car, at some point it will have a major breakdown–just keep the spare tire and jack in the trunk, keep your cell phone charged and some spare snacks in the glove compartment–you might get stuck for 3 days!
Grant
Our New Arrangement
I was told to get into bed at 9:30 tonight because I “look so exhausted”. In truth, I got little sleep this weekend. So, I am in bed. The laptop just came to bed with me!
I have wanted to post for days, to conclude the story I left hanging. I have so much to share. We are just fine. Good even. The rest will have to wait until tomorrow.
Friday night I had to rush Grant to the hospital and we spent a very unhappy and ill weekend there. He is fine now, recovering and released under my supervision. The doctor said “I will let you go home as long as you agree that she is in charge for the next few days!” Being no fool, he agreed.
I plan to take full advantage of our new arrangement as soon as I am allowed out of bed! 
Submit Your Ideas
I stopped at the Starbucks Coffee Shop on the corner near my office today, and saw the sign: “Submit Your Ideas”. I can’t, I thought. I just cannot.
Grant and I have had an awful few days. It is not all song and roses you know? Relationships are hard stuff, although this really caught me by surprise. Sunday morning we were great. By Sunday afternoon we were arguing, by Monday we were disconnected, and by Tuesday the walls were built, all circuits down and there seemed no way to bridge the distances. We talked, numerous times. The more we talked and missed each other the more frustrated we both got. There was yelling and unkind things said both ways, two spankings and tears. Still, we are not resolved.
It started with something Grant did that I really did not like or feel comfortable with. Something that is not his normal way. It was not to me, but around me, and I found it very upsetting. The thing is, from my perspective, this was also very unlike Grant to do this thing. We talked and he disagreed. We talked again, then argued, and he still disagreed. I have felt that this was so out of character for him, his typical viewpoints, that I just could not reconcile it with the man I know and trust. The more he insists that my perspective is off, the more concerned, then off balance, and finally angry and scared I have felt.
It seems an apple is now an orange. He tells me that what I am seeing as an apple is in fact an orange, that it is orange, and my perception is faulty. I have looked and then looked again and again. I see an apple. I have been upset and confused. This morning he told me that when we cannot agree, our arrangement is that he gets to decide. Well, that is true, but does that means if he decides that an apple is an orange I should then just agree? Ican’t, I just cannot.
I want the arguing to stop. I want to be in harmony and feel connected. I am going to stop insisting that it is an apple, although I still know what I am seeing is red and not orange. I don’t need to keep saying so. I have doubted him and doubted myself. Maybe there is a bowl of fruit and we are both seeing what we are seeing and missing the other’s vision? I just don’t know anymore. I do know that if a submissive must take on her dominant’s views despite what her eyes, heart and mind tell her, then I am no kind of submissive. I fail. I can’t do that or be that. I have soul searched and considered surrender, and I find that would require lying to him and to myself. Then what? We have peace between us based on unreality? No, I cannot live like that.
So, I wait and wonder how we will resolve this. The only place of security and peace I can count on is that I know we will work this out, no matter what. We will find a way to come to terms, make peace and move past this. That will require us both feeling we have remained intact, are respected, can be whole. It is not that I won’t submit my ideas but that I can’t. It would break me, and I will never allow that. I also know that would never be Grant’s intention or purpose. But again, we are so far apart right now. So I wait.
We Met I Gal and J!
Grant and I had the absolute pleasure to meet I Gal and J today. We have been cyber friends for about two years. It started when we met here at my blog through a comment. Then there were some emails. Finally we began to chat, and then to talk on the phone. I have learned over the past few years that while an interest in spanking and domestic discipline makes the connections, that alone is really not enough to base a friendship on. I Gal and I have things to talk about, and DD, our marriages, is only one of many topics we share now. We talk about that, sure, but kids and parents, in laws and jobs…we share our lives.
However, as much as we don’t talk about DD all the time, we both understand the dynamics in each other’s marriages and having that foundation makes things easier, more relaxed. There is a common way of looking at relationships that makes for less tension, an unspoken understanding. At least this time it was unspoken. J and I Gal have never met a DD couple before and we sure weren’t going to scare J away. We understood that while I Gal and I have talked for two years, J and I have talked once or twice for a minute on the phone and Grant and J not at all. They needed to see that Internet friends could indeed be “normal” people. I think we all feel that way to start, or at least we did. I Gal and I are both more relaxed and assume the best of people, while Grant and J are more skeptical and protective. I guess it’s good that we very friendly girls have our skeptics to keep an eye on us. Grant keeps reminding me about playing on 42nd St . There are all kinds of people on 42nd St in NYC, and not everyone will be nice, honest or even sane. Sadly, so I have learned. However, I will remain the optimist. I can’t really help my nature, and it has allowed me to meet some terrific people who have become my very best friends.
A few days ago I Gal and J moved their now married daughter to her new home several states away, while her husband finishes his tour in Afghanistan They were able to see us on their trip back home. We drove to meet them at a small town near us, and walked and looked in antique shops and took a couple of hours to get to know each other in an easy way. I think the guys hit it off as I Gal and I thought they would. They are very similar in world view and beliefs, in political views; they even share the same birthday week! We then had a lovely lunch together on a restaurant patio behind a pretty restored mansion, and finally took them back to our house for coffee. I think we passed J’s test, because we have been invited to go visit them in the Spring. We might just take them up on that too!
In the mean time, I do have to say I Gal looked amazing! She is very pretty. Such a warm smile with a beautiful dimple when she laughs! She has worked hard and lost so much weight, and it is apparent she feels great both physically and about herself. J was fun and more relaxed than I thought he might be, and I didn’t even have to salute! It was a really nice meet!
Coming Home
Grant and I met in 1980. We are approaching 30 years together. That sounds like such a long time to me, longer than I have lived with anyone. Longer than I knew my mother, longer than I have known my children, I have known and been with this man.
Things were not always so wonderful between us. There were truly great times and some very very bad ones. Maybe it is true that only someone who has loved and lost can know and appreciate what it is to find each other again. I am not sure. But those years apart, and we were apart, both literally and emotionally, made the rebuilding of our marriage so much more important, and precious to us.
Domestic Discipline was the tool, but love and commitment, honesty and communication, putting our hearts on the line and our pride on the bench, making what we could build together more important than anything we were or had apart, was the way.
The first step was agreeing to a power dynamic in the relationship. The second was an honest assessment of where we were and where we wanted to be. Neither of us treated each other with the respect we thought was due ourselves or the other, and both of us felt the emotional intimacy was impeded by that lack of respect and by the distance we had let grow between us. We protected ourselves from the other, stayed guarded and thus built walls. Walls that grew strong over a number of years. We always loved each other, but from a distance, an emotional, and at times a physical distance that became very nearly an unbreachable divide.
I couldn’t live like that anymore. The chasms were too painful; it was tearing my soul, and finally I forced us apart. Grant was always there, steady in his commitment to me and our family. He did not know how to fix what ailed us, but he did know he wasn’t leaving or giving up on us. I figured out how to fix us, or at least the first steps, but he stayed and waited. It all began with total honesty, and the unflinching commitment to remake our lives together with respect and value. With the willingness on both sides, we rebuilt.
It gave us a chance as adults to rethink what a marriage should be like, and then talk and work together, and then start down a road to find that… together. It has taken such hard work, tears, emotional turmoil, risks. There are times I feel naked before him…heck there are times I AM! Any kind of naked is hard for me. I feel vulnerable and exposed. But it is part of the price to be paid for the intimacy, to be naked before him, to expose my throat, or my bottom, to lower the walls, to let him see me and touch me…any part at any time. To be his.
That can be a real struggle, but the outcome has been glorious. I try to remind myself, each and every time I struggle, that the result is worth the effort, worth pushing through the pain of spanking, the anxiety of exposure, the reluctance to share my innermost fears. And he has been there, steady, my rock. He has also done his own work and gone through struggles, put aside pride and selfish concerns to do and be for us what he is. My protector, my leader, my biggest fan, and the man who unconditionally loves me and always will. He has taken responsibility for me and us. For the first 20 years of our marriage, we loved, we committed, we believed we would be together. But in the deepest secret places, I didn’t know. Now I know. He is mine and I am his. The knowing is the shelter in the storm of my life.
He came in late last night from 4 days away. I was long asleep and barely woke enough to lift my arms in a sleepy hug as he sat beside me on the bed. I mumbled my greeting and I was just awake enough to feel how glad I was he was home, and to tell him so. He undressed and came to bed, and I moved to his side, wanting the contact in my half sleep, and drifted off with him laying behind me and holding me while he read to fall asleep himself. The warmth of his body, the safety of his arms enveloped me and I floated. But there were small touches, my arm, my hip, and then the book went away, the light went off and wordlessly he touched, he aroused and he took me. “Took me”. That is the exact phrase. With no words, softly but with insistence and quiet control, he took me.
And I went. I always go to him now. That is my duty to him and to us, to go to him, to stay open, to be available and willing. And it is his to take me. To accept my offerings, and to require my openness, and take me if ever I cannot get there myself.
A newer blogger named Poppy, a gifted writer who moves me with her perceptions wrote this:
I want to tell you about one moment I had a few weeks ago. I have not told him about this moment. He will read it here, with you.
I was head down, bottom up over his lap. My shackles were spiked and my mood was iron. I felt stubborn, angry and ready for a fight. There was a practical reason I was being spanked but we both knew it was due to my shackles.
He wanted me to say sorry for whatever the infringement was. He was aware that when I said sorry it would be because I was calming down, coming home to him.
I did not say sorry for some time and there was a moment (between one implement and the next) when I thought to myself,
“What if I tire him? What if my rage is too much? What if he hates me for being like this? Should I submit without meaning it?”
It is the cry of the unloved, the unsure and the afraid.
He broke into my thoughts with a mean crack of a paddle and in time I submitted with my whole heart and came home to him for real.
My mind keeps drifting back to her words. They so move me and the feelings are my own. This is about being taken. Loved by a man who understands you and the need for intimacy and connection. He sees without words the struggle that might be played out with him but is really within, who can and will take you if need be. Yes, it is about coming home. Last night was soft and easy, but there have been and will be times when I know it will be hard. I also know I will always go to him, and when I just cannot, he will take me. Knowing that…it’s everything.
The Truth As I Know It…at least for today!
“Cogito, ergo sum” The philosopher Descartes is famous for his words “I think, therefore I am”. What this boils down to is the philosophical position that existence of the self is predicated on the fact that we can think, that our awareness of an ‘I’, means that we DO exist. The intellect is a powerful tool, but to my way of thinking it is not the be all end all of our existence.
There is existing, and then there is living. My personal motto is closer to: I think, therefore I am. I love, therefore I live. I would have to go back to my HS Latin to make that sound more important, but even in English, to me it’s pretty weighty.
There’s been a discussion bouncing back and forth between several blogs on truth and honesty, on what is integrity, on right and what’s wrong in relationships. Then it got into monogamy and polyamory, and lifestyle choices. Personally, I don’t particularly care what people call themselves, what cyber club they have signed up for, or even the words they use to describe themselves. That’s only part of the story. I look for the heart underneath the words. We all have choices about how to live our lives. In fact, I would assert that regardless of whether you are single or married, slave or sub, master or husband or top, and regardless of who you say is in charge, you make your choices, and live your life according to your decisions. That is not only how it is but how it should be. Unless you are captured and thrown in jail, hidden in someone’s basement, you are blessed with freedoms and choices, and make them every day of your life.
I have listened to bloggers talk about honesty being mostly subjective. Doesn’t everybody lie? The answer is no. There are people who will try their best to give the truth to those they care about. Some say that long term monogamous marriage is really a sham. How many people secretly cheat on their spouse, and then leave their partner when they find someone new? Many people do it, but that doesn’t make it OK or acceptable, or a foregone conclusions. It was said that “Religion is a myth”. After all, “God is dead”… didn’t Neitchze show that? Maybe. Maybe not. One person’s reality is not always the next person’s, but I will tell you this, if someone has experienced the Divine, I am not going to argue with them. Some people who have experienced what I have not…yet. Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus! I beleive in things that can be experienced but not seen or touched. The human spirit and love for a start.
Some seem to believe that marrying and living happily ever after is a myth too. For them I do understand it has eluded them. However I have experienced it. I have been there. I am there. I am happily married to a man I love who loves me. Our love, passion and commitment has spanned 3 decades, so far. I am in a relationship where I feel cherished and supported and yes, adored. Last week, in response to my post on the romance of DD, a comment came from a gal named Jewel: “I am no mans slave. I am not a doormat. I am adored. I am babied, and treated like a queen.” I get that Jewel, and I feel much the same way.
I have recently been accused of controlling my relationship (ooh, big slam in the community of submissives!). This was a comment to me in response to my saying that not only does my husband not lie to me, but that I would not accept that. You see, if I can accept and not accept behaviors from my dominant husband, some people interpret that as meaning he is not really in charge. Yes and no. I am in control of me now and always. I always have been and always will be, regardless of what I might want to pretend. I accept that as a responsible adult because that is reality. I may take orders from my husband, follow his lead, even be spanked, but ultimately each and every time, it is my choice. No matter what mythology we may ascribe to, even if we call ourselves ‘CDD wife’ or ‘slave’ we all have and make those choices. We are adults and we belong to ourselves. We create relationships to bridge the gaps; we reach out in our fundamental isolation and if we are lucky indeed, we experience the bliss of union. But we remain our own. We come into this world and leave this world alone. Where we can bridge the gaps are though our minds and hearts. I love therefore I live. That is living in my book. I choose to be more than I am, to join with my significant other to become US, more than each of us can be alone. It is through the power of our choices, the gift of my submission and the gift of his dominance, made daily, that our lives are woven together in dedication and love.
What I have come to understand is that not all men are the same. There are men who control and men who lead. There are dominant men who’s agenda is to take care of themselves. and their real focus is to have their needs met . There are also dominant men who choose to care for their submissive, who choose to put them first, who actually find their fulfillment in loving their submissive in a positive and uplifting way. They are not forced, or manipulated into cherishing. But they do cherish, because that is who they are, the stuff they are made of. To cherish and protect is as much their need as their need to call the shots. I am the lucky one. I got one of those…the good guys. But then, I chose him as much as he chose me. I let him in, loved him, fought with him, struggled and found my way through 30 years with him. And I chose to keep him too, because he is worth keeping. He’s not an easy man, but he truly is a good one, and he truly is good for me. It is also the truth that I never would have allowed myself to be with or commit to a man who was unable to put me first, who did not find fulfillment in my joy and happiness. I think that is not anything more or less than having a sound sense of self worth. On my good days, I do believe I am worth all of that. I also know Grant would not want to be with a woman who wanted or accepted less. He feels he is worth having a woman who is all that, and who knows it. I have found myself, over our years, rising to his expectations. Do I struggle with esteem and value…sure, of course. Who doesn’t? But he tells me over and over that I am worth respect and devotion, and he does not just talk the talk but walks the walk. He shows me what I am worth by how he treats me. He expects me to match his efforts with how I treat myself.
There are women who want to be disregarded, mistreated, lied to, and disrespected. That’s ok if you choose that. You can have whatever you choose. Just know it is a choice.
I would assert that people who understand the concept of respect, will respect other’s choices and beliefs regardless of whether they share them or not. Being more open, more “liberal”, does not necessitate looking down on those who are more traditional in their thinking. Looking down on people is intolerance and intolerance is not attractive. I prefer domestic discipline to master slave for myself, but I read and respect some couples who call themselves M/s. I am not a Christian or even particularly religious but I acknowledge and respect some bright, talented and wonderful people who are. I am devoted to one man and just cannot wrap my mind around another way to live, but I would not throw stones at a lifestyle that some choose and they say it works for them. I sure don’t share a quarter of the kinks I read about, but kinks are just kinks, and meant to be fun. I grew up in the world of Freud. In my home Sex was never bad and proclivities were in the range of ‘normal’ and we’re all a little neurotic, and hey, as my Dad used to say, “it is what it is”.
So ‘Live and let live’! Know you have choices. Make your life work for you, and forget what anyone else thinks or says.
Afraid to Begin: Questions on Discipline
Dear Sara,
Thanks for this opportunity. There is such support amongst this group of people. I receive it daily. Like Ally we are (at my request) integrating DD into our lives). The changes in me have been dramatic. This isn’t bragging. I was so entrenched in co dependency that I couldn’t let my husband have his natural role in our family. He is not one to change anyone’s course, he feels it is up to them. Finally arriving at a much humbler place (which was steeped additionally in insecurity and fear) he said, “What took you so long?” (wise grin on his face).
Enough background: He wants me to draw up everything (drum roll) even the punishments. I will do this for you because you believe it will help you (And believe me it does – even if spanking isn’t yet for discipline) I am here to execute your plan with precision.
Real question: How do I do that. I don’t know how I will react to anything of literally “consequence”. Some use a timer, some go implement with numbers, I’ve even heard of dice rolling. I shouldn’t get stuck on logistics. Obviously this will be a starting point. But I feel like I’m choking here after all this mental and emotional preparation. He is adamant about not having this come from him. I know this may as M:e has pointed out regarding other issues, be “an awakening” and he could feel differently. But currently I feel honestly a bit scared about this – ironic because I knew I was headed toward this all along. I just need someone with experience to shove me down the slide. Thanks so much Sara. Also it was your site that I was so thrilled to come upon with all the links for DD. I wrote Greg a long letter cutting and pasting many of the linked articles. Your writing is breathtakingly honest. Thank you once again. KayLynn
Hi KayLynn,
Thank you for your kind words about the blog. When we started Domestic Discipline 5 years ago, there were not many DD blogs and I looked far and wide, as you are, for guidance. It is all so new, and yes at times scary, and yet exciting, and so promising! I remember all of that very well, and one of the reasons we take questions here is that I know how uncertain and alone you can feel in all this, especially in the beginning. It’s not like you can talk to your mother, your best friend or your neighbor about it! I also was lucky enough to find a few people who helped me along the way. These women listened to me, advised me, and supported me in my growth in TTWD. They, and one in particular, have been so important. I am just not sure what I would have done, or how far I would have progressed without that circle to help me along. No one can tell you what will be right for you, but we can share experiences, and share what we tried that worked and didn’t. I will try to do that in the hopes that some of it will be useful for you in your beginning.
When Grant and I began DD it was 20 years into our marriage. We had years of history, and intimacy, but also quite a few years of strife. We had never used spanking in any capacity, and between us and neither of us had ever spanked or been spanked. Talk about ‘newbies’! We started slowly. We knew we wanted to add discipline into our relationship, but frankly, for us, it was never about chores, or motivating me, nor was I asking for his help with anything specific. We made a conscious decision to shift our power dynamic and for us DD was to support that change. We wanted to improve our marriage, and DD was used to help the things that seemed most important to our relationship: attitude and respect. Grant added in safety. He said if we were going to agree to a power dynamic, agree that he was the boss, the “Head of Household”, then his terms were that safety, health and welfare, were his call. That was his first step in asserting his authority and, of course, I accepted that.
At that time, neither of us was very far down the road in terms of understanding exactly what this dynamic would entail. I really had no clue what I was getting into. A little spanking, he’s the HoH, and our marriage improves…I’m signing up! I can now tell you it is so much more than that, and has been the catalyst for personal and relationship growth that I had never imagined. But that process was step by step, slow, and as doors open, each and every time, you make a choice whether to go through them. I have to tell you that after five years, we understand this journey will be ongoing. We continue to grow and learn and evolve, and doing that together has been so satisfying! It sounds like your husband is not feeling very comfortable with being the authority in your marriage right now. That’s OK. Maybe that is not even something the two of you are interested in, and if it is, maybe down the road he will grow into that. Neither people nor their relationships change overnight.
The one piece of advice I would offer, no matter what you want, is to start slow. Sometimes people are tempted to start with a detailed list of rules, consequences, and ideas about how the consequences might be meted out. If it gets complicated, that can be really hard to keep up with in the beginning. We have always gone for simplicity. Grant wanted the discipline to be about the big stuff. If it hurt me or him or us it was punishable As Grant explained here, we don’t sweat the small stuff, either of us. We have very busy lives…jobs, businesses, kids, pets, family…worrying about little things like always walking on his left, or wearing flowered panties on Friday, or doing your chores every day, may not be sustainable long term. I am not saying there is a anything wrong with those rules. People do all kinds of things that please them and may work for them, and what works for one may not work for another. In our case, Grant just does not want to be responsible for making me doing what I am supposed to. I am a very capable and responsible adult, and want to be. He intervenes when he feels he needs to, but I think he would feel more parental than anything else of he had to monitor my daily activities. On the other hand, many couples have had success with picking 2-3 smaller rules to start with that are not such a big deal. It gives them a place to try out what rules, what punishment, and a disciplinary relationship might feel like. Then they can grow and learn, and make choices from there. Try things, experiment, and know you will make a few mistakes and let that be OK.
The one thing that I do see as being essential and consistently true with couples who develop any version of TTWD is that they need to be willing to engage in the process together. They pick a starting place and try. They talk and do, then assess and tweak. They try again, they talk, and they keep going. They understand that this is a process, and it will take time and work. They need to be willing to be adventurous together and to make some mistakes together, too. Me, I would never roll dice, unless it was for game playing. But agreeing to a set punishment can work. We never did that, because while Grant was not comfortable at all with the idea of punishment at first, and spanking was all new, he was always very comfortable with being in charge. That is his personality. Your husband will find what fits him. I would advise you to start small, simply, and maybe agree to set aside some time once a week to talk about how things are going. Agree that you can change things as you go, as you learn, as you see what works for you and what works for him. How can you know what this will all be like before you try?
KayLnn, your questions and comments are always welcome here! I hope this has been of some help, and I wish you the best!
Sara
